Iguess you never heard of rhetorical questions have you? British intelligence at work here.

Yea, these are the same people who voted for Bush 2 terms. Great example. Besidesmore often than not the polls have been wrong. I am not one who fallows polls because I refuse to believe that questioning a small percentage of the American population could actually expressthe sentiments of an entire nation, so your assumptions mean nothing to me, the truth will be revealed after the elections are over.

So European values consider insulting guest to be rude but ok for the guest to insult strangers? Glade those values are an ocean away. But you know, I refuse to see Europe as what you have shown here because I will not see it as stupid, ignorant and down right arrogant just because of one of it's citizens. We have some here who either are from Europe or have lived there and don't deserve to be caught up in theinsults because of you.

There is no such thing as fairness when some people get to give more than others while others get to take more. You can take yours and Obama's fairness and shove it. It's one thing for us to lookout for our fellow citizens, but not at gun point.

  Most americans are fortunately not like you. Many would debate openly and without insults. Those hard working joe six pack do not deserve an uneducated oik like you bringing down their good name.

  Most Europeans and modern north americasn agree with me, not the likes of you.

  Nope you made a statement that Obama should run in the UE, and you emant it. Well he can't as he is not from the EU. In other words you got it wrong. I won't hold one americans stupidity against a whole nation.

  Fairness is helping the poor, the less fortunate. Homeless people often are the result of abuse. Just becauser a good for nothing like you has no compassion does not eman all humans have the same views.

  Again I will not hold one north american oiks views against them all.

Englands markets at the time of the U.S revolution was a command market.  We were force to sell them our raw goods and were commanded not to make industries of our own. While the English were forced to sell to the US at a lower prices they could get with other trade partners.  Our Revolution freed both markets. we got to sell our raw goods AND make new industries while the english got to sell their goods for a better mark up. 

DashingPrince, I believe you don't understand the EU too well.

The EU isn't as unified as you say it is.  There are multiple groups within the EU vying for power; this idea of "European" values is something that the EU bureaucrats subscribe to, but unfortunately normal Europeans don't.  Firstly, the new EU Lisbon Treaty has only been passed in many states because the national governments refused to bring it to a referendum, primarily because they all know it would fail terribly if they did so.  You, yourself should understand this as a Brit, because Gordon Brown refused to ever bring that to a referendum despite a campaign promise to do so.  Apparently, the EU and its citizens disagree on what these 'European' values should actually be.  Heck even the freakin Irish voted it down!  And they have been getting EU subsidies for years!  As for general EU disunity, you Brits regularly oppose the EU on many issues: defense, spending, agriculture subsidies, fishing rights, SHENGEN, welfare policies, and Russia, just to name a few.  Heck you guys haven't even adopted the Euro yet.  Meanwhile, Scandinavian countries have their own disagreements with France and Germany, and the Mediterrean states are also seeking their own separate bloc now, lead by French President Sarkozy.  Even more striking, many of these Eastern European countries coming into the EU are actually adopting more American-type models.  I know this because I lived in one of these countries for six months, Estonia.  It has a flat tax rate of 18% (significantly lower than the US's tax rate and in fact more "American" then America itself).  This has promoted significant growth in the country until recently, primarily due to the US's own housing bubble which impacted the Baltics quite severely. 

So to say that somehow Europe is winning, is incredibly incredibly simplistic.  Many more things are going on here.  I will say that the EU is becoming a 'normative' power.  That is to say they are affecting other countries and encouraging them to adopt EU-like policies.  Turkey is a prime example of this.  Nonetheless, to say that "european" values are winning is a very simplistic and naive interpretation of what is actually happening within the EU and throughout the world.

That's got everything to do with fairness. Some people see it as only fair that the government is there to lend a helping hand to people when times are hard, providing that person is doing everything they can to try and get out of the hole. Others see it as only fair that people are taxed based on their ability to pay, and you don't tax the poor into the ground to pay for tax breaks on the rich. Some people might think it unfair that a company will look to exploit some workers by paying them below the market wage for their services, and that a minimum wage should be imposed. The biggest reason for the welfare state in any country is fairness.

Well it's fair to say that there's a clear difference in values between Europeans and the US based on the nature of the welfare state in the two areas - European countries (at least western european ones) are more likely to have higher benefits, higher state provision of services, greater worker rights etc. compared with the US, which suggests a difference in values. So to say that by itself doesn't necessarily suggest a lack of understanding wrt the EU IMO. However I would agree with you that saying european values are winning is being simplistic (especially since as you rightly pointed out there are such massive differences between the countries in the EU).

LOL. pot meet kettle. Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Don't insult people first only to complain about being insulted. I may not be a Hardvard graduate, but I am hardly uneducated.

Yea, and those North Americans you speak of are partly (if not mostly) uneducated poor people. You know, the 95% that Obama plans to help. Great choice.

Opinions, aren't they great? Believe what you want, I know what I "meant", not "emant". Your opinions have no power over mine so it doesn't matter what you think. You must think I am that stupid not to know that Obama is not Eutopean and therefor can not run there. The fact that you actually believed such a ludicris things shows just how idiotic you really are. Grow up already.

There is plenty of help for the poor and the homeless in this country. Plenty of charities, plenty of Gov't programs (most which are useless) and plenty of opportunity to succeed. And please stop acting as if there are no poor and homeless in Europe.

Good for nothing? Wow, this is British manners at its finest. Talk about childsih attitudes online. Grow up and debate like a man.

And that's my point. The US provides people with opportunities to succeed and live at the same time but some simply choose to live and not succeed. It's not like the US ignores the poor, that is ridiculous to say considering all the Gov't programs that exist. But if they continue to be poor and homeless, how are welfare programs actually working? So the next step is to give them everything paid for by those who can afford it?

And here in lies the truth. I said it once and I'll say it again, give 50% of the poor and homeless American $1 million dollars (Tax free) and then tell them you want to distribute the wealth and we will see just how much they believe in Obama's ideals once they don't benefit from them.

You're an idiot. He was defending you by pointing out that you aren't an American.

  Charles you insulted me first, pot kettle yes, trolling certainly. As he made no further points just insults then I won't reply to him any further.

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Taara the EU has many views and different ways of doing the same values. You are supporting me not refuting me.

  I will explain again the values...  EU..Strong economy and social justice. USA ...strong economy with no need for social justice.

  You have to argue that not having social welfare ie universal health care is preading. it is not spreading I am afraid. All other points you made taara were in agreement with mine, I am guessing you were aware of this.

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  Not sure why you are talking about the revolutionary war. The freemarket and its values were invenetd by the UK, and with help from the Netherlands. You adopted them like all countries.

  After WWII the UK then added social welfare as being a basic responsibility of government, the USA has yet to adopt this, most other democracies in the developed world have.

  This is my point support it or argue against it, thanks.

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LoL. America freed the market by its revolution... tossing off the yolk of both american and English business men.  Our founding fathers created a more free market place then what came before. 

I don't have to argue the way you command mate.